TEIWiki:IdleTalk

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Hello
This is an attempt to create a forum for general discussion on topics relevant to this wiki. Something to replace repeated entries in multiple users' discussions. For now, it is just, it seems, James and Kevin who can be counted on to discuss matters on a regular basis, but we do want to attract more people here, don't we. If we can persuade even a fraction of the community behind TEI-L to visit this place and edit here, things will definitely start rolling faster. And the larger the wiki, the more people it will attract, and so on. And once the powers-that-be notice that it is useful, perhaps they will even consider a software upgrade :-), which will stop the automated spam and make editing easier by removing some of the annoying bugs (more on that later).

Aha, I admit I didn't think long about the name of this page, so it's happily open to modification. I intended it to be something like , but the software may have a problem with the &lt; sign, and linking to it might be problematic, too. I'll try to hook it up to the sidebar in a moment, hoping it's ok with everyone.

So let's see how this works and if it works at all. Piotr 11:37, 25 September 2007 (BST)

response
Kshawkin: I've mentioned upgrading MediaWiki to James and later to Chris Ruotolo. Chris told me it will have to wait till after P5 1.0 -- that is, until at least November 2007.
 * Thanks for the info. I intended to start a topic listing the reasons for an upgrade (mostly bugs and spam-control issues), just to show that it's more than a matter of chasing the cutting edge, but I'm glad to hear that things are moving on anyway. Piotr 20:45, 26 September 2007 (BST)

A different main page layout?
Was thinking of making the main page slightly more attractive, but I haven't come far: see User:Piotr Banski/sandbox (and possibly the history of that page) for some attempts. Everyone's invited to modify it, I'm not really good at such things. (You don't have to worry about spoiling things, it's just a copy of the main page in my user space.) Thanks, Piotr 11:47, 25 September 2007 (BST)
 * Since this is a wiki, I just went ahead and put in a new version. Tried to make it a bit less dry and provide a bit more explanation for where links lead. Won't have any problem with a revert, the old version is just a click away. Piotr 20:40, 26 September 2007 (BST)

Categories
Tried to make some sense of them (and for them). I'm a bit uneasy about the following categories and articles, and will be grateful if someone can verify both their purpose and my handling of them:
 * Category:Interfaces, Category:Extension -- are they duplicates of some subcategory of Tools and Customization, respectively?
 * XML Versioning -- it would be great to have some more info on what this is about :-) Schema versioning, perhaps?
 * BBEdit -- an article to be expanded and perhaps recategorised
 * Category:CSS, Category:XQuery and Category:XSLT mention an address for stylesheet submission. I'm just wondering if it still works and if someone checks it. Maybe it would be easier (and definitely less time-consuming) to just ask for direct submissions into TEI Wiki (?) Piotr 13:52, 25 September 2007 (BST) Solved: stylesheets@tei-c.org: host jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU[128.143.22.122] said: 550 stylesheets@tei-c.org: User unknown in virtual alias table (in reply to RCPT TO command). Removed the address from these three categories. Piotr 00:19, 26 September 2007 (BST)
 * Put Category:XQuery and Category:XSLT into Category:Tools, as they partly fulfilled the criteria (articles on XQuery and XSLT have been in that category for a while), though it felt a bit wrong, like shifting from a narrow understanding of tools as software to broad understanding of tools as including specs/languages that make your job easier. By the same token, I should treat Category:CSS alike. They just don't feel right as root categories, but "Tools" does not feel right as the sole containing category, either, it seems to me. Piotr 22:19, 25 September 2007 (BST) Still rather unhappy about that, see below.

Response
Kshawkin 14:13, 25 September 2007 (BST): Category:Interfaces does seem to be a subcategory. I've modified it to make it so. Category:Extension appears unrelated to the tools section of the wiki.
 * Category:Extension seems to duplicate Category:Customization but may have been intended as its subcategory (it mentions detailed customizations as opposed to attribute-less customizations mentioned in Category:Customization). Perhaps it was meant as a holder for special customizations to DTDs ("DTD extensions"), the way it was done up to P4? Let me nest it within "Customization" and see what happens. It definitely deserves a bit more explanation for its purpose to become clear (and/or possibly it needs to be renamed to mention DTDs directly). Piotr 21:40, 25 September 2007 (BST)
 * There may have been a misunderstanding behind Syd's modification of James's original description of the category. Went back to James's version, hoping I got it right. Piotr 21:49, 25 September 2007 (BST)
 * Created Category:DTD Extensions. Thinking of scrapping "Extension" (?) Piotr 00:26, 9 October 2007 (BST)

Category trees
This is what the category situation looks like right now. I'm not saying this is perfect, mind you :-) Posting this info here hoping for comments and ideas for improvement. Piotr 22:50, 25 September 2007 (BST)


 * Root categories:
 * Code (CSS, XSL*, XQuery, etc.; mostly contributed samples)
 * Community (TEI-community-related)
 * Customization (pieces of ODDs)
 * Markup (mostly contributed samples of P4/P5)
 * TEI Wiki (in the TEIWiki and Help namespaces; internal docs)
 * Tools

The more detailed category structure is as follows:


 * Code:
 * CSS
 * XQuery
 * XSLT (subcategories: target formats (TEI:P4 and TEI:P5 may need to appear here, too) or XSLT versions)
 * HTML
 * P4toP5
 * XSLT:1.0
 * XSLT:2.0
 * Community:
 * Grants
 * Publications
 * SIG
 * Customization:
 * Extension (to be renamed to "DTD Extensions", perhaps? see above)
 * Markup (containing both objects to be described (like graphics) and specs to express the description in (like tei:p4) -- while not perfect, I think this state of affairs is bearable):
 * Graphics
 * Facsimiles
 * SVG
 * TEI:P4
 * TEI:P5 (these two, P4+P5, may also need to appear under "XSLT", as target formats)
 * TEI Wiki:
 * Users
 * Tools:
 * Administrative tools
 * All-in-one Tools
 * Analysis tools
 * Conversion and preprocessing tools
 * Development tools
 * Editing tools
 * Header creation tools
 * Interfaces
 * Publishing and delivery tools
 * Querying tools
 * Testing and QA tools

Thought of gathering "Markup", "Code", and "Customization" under a new root category, "Samples", but each of the three categories contains more than samples (docs or software happen there), so the result would be misleading, I'm afraid. Piotr 21:53, 26 September 2007 (BST)

Licensing
I'm uneasy about a certain possible licensing discrepancy. Call for stylesheets sets GLPL as the default license for the code samples published on this site, but under the edit box we are told that the obligatory license is GFDL 1.2 (not sure if this can be changed in the settings, and anyway, the existing 94 or so articles have already been submitted under this very license). I'm far from expert in this field, so I'll be grateful if someone could set this right or at least explain what's going on (automatic double licensing for code as opposed to documentation?). Thanks, Piotr 21:21, 26 September 2007 (BST)
 * See also: TEIWiki:General disclaimer.

Unused images
It's possible to generate a list of images that are not linked to from anywhere, so let me post the link here, in case they can be made use of. One of them is actually a RNG file uploaded as image by mistake: Image:MyTei.rng. Piotr 21:21, 2 October 2007 (BST)

ToDo (ToBeWritten)
This ought to move onto a separate page when/if it grows, perhaps: a list of articles/subjects that seem relevant. There is also a special page where empty targets for two or more links are displayed: Special:Wantedpages. Piotr 01:14, 6 October 2007 (BST)


 * Tools:
 * YAPS, yaps --> Yet Another Presentation System by Syd Bauman, see e.g. http://www.digitalhumanities.org/dh2007/abstracts/xhtml.xq?id=198
 * EpiDoc, epidoc, see http://epidoc.sourceforge.net/
 * teiPublisher, teipublisher, see http://sourceforge.net/projects/teipublisher/
 * Wiki2TEI, wiki2tei, see http://sourceforge.net/projects/wiki2tei/
 * XSLTdoc, xsltdoc http://sourceforge.net/projects/xsltdoc/
 * RefDB, refdb, http://refdb.sourceforge.net/
 * Conferences (under Category:Community, I guess):
 * Digital Humanities
 * Extreme Markup turned into Balisage: The Markup Conference
 * LREC
 * (or possibly just a single page listing conferences and their web addresses -- that may be a better idea; and the links above would redirect to that page, something like LREC redirecting to Conferences)
 * (or possibly just a single page listing conferences and their web addresses -- that may be a better idea; and the links above would redirect to that page, something like LREC redirecting to Conferences)