Draft minutes of 2010-04 Council meeting - Revision history

Piotr Banski: Protected "Draft minutes of 2010-04 Council meeting": isn't this what you intended, Kevin? [edit=sysop:move=sysop]

2011-11-13T21:33:54Z

Protected "Draft minutes of 2010-04 Council meeting": isn't *this* what you intended, Kevin? [edit=sysop:move=sysop]

← Older revision	Revision as of 21:33, 13 November 2011
(No difference)

Kshawkin: Unprotected "Draft minutes of 2010-04 Council meeting": this content has been migrated to tei-c.org

2011-11-13T20:44:04Z

Unprotected "Draft minutes of 2010-04 Council meeting": this content has been migrated to tei-c.org

← Older revision	Revision as of 20:44, 13 November 2011
(No difference)

Kshawkin: added Category:Council

2011-04-15T18:18:19Z

added Category:Council

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:18, 15 April 2011
Line 482:		Line 482:

	Action item: LB will close these.		Action item: LB will close these.

			[[Category:Council]]

Kshawkin: link to archived version

2011-04-15T18:16:55Z

link to archived version

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:16, 15 April 2011
Line 1:		Line 1:
			'''Archival version is now at http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Meetings/tcm45.xml'''

	The following are minutes of the 2010 Council meeting, held April 29-30 in Dublin.		The following are minutes of the 2010 Council meeting, held April 29-30 in Dublin.

	~~A final version should be added to http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Meetings/index.xml along with the past meeting minutes.~~

	== morning of 2010-04-29 ==		== morning of 2010-04-29 ==

Kshawkin: /* hyphenation (and orthographical changes at line breaks) */ more from Lou

2010-06-06T16:34:07Z

hyphenation (and orthographical changes at line breaks): more from Lou

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:34, 6 June 2010
Line 258:		Line 258:

	Elena said this is exactly how the Austen project handled hyphenation.		Elena said this is exactly how the Austen project handled hyphenation.

			[Alternatively, the hyphen could be left in the text and no rend attribute used.]

	Lou continued that this leaves the problem of handling hyphenation of words across line breaks in languages like Dutch and German, where letters within the word are sometimes duplicated before and after the hyphen. Juliana noted that Old Irish did something similar.		Lou continued that this leaves the problem of handling hyphenation of words across line breaks in languages like Dutch and German, where letters within the word are sometimes duplicated before and after the hyphen. Juliana noted that Old Irish did something similar.

Kshawkin: /* hyphenation (and orthographical changes at line breaks) */ link to discussion of lb@type

2010-06-06T16:26:32Z

hyphenation (and orthographical changes at line breaks): link to discussion of lb@type

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:26, 6 June 2010
Line 255:		Line 255:
	In short, the Guidelines are currently not helpful in giving guidance on encoding hyphens that appear to be accidents of line breaks (where a hyphen would not appear in the word had there not been a line break). It has been suggested to use the Unicode soft hyphen character for these cases, and Lou initially thought this would be appropriate; however, Deborah Anderson asked senior Unicode people about this and they told us that use of the soft hyphen for such cases is inappropriate. (The soft hyphen is meant for cases where processing software might choose to break a word, not where it was previously broken.)		In short, the Guidelines are currently not helpful in giving guidance on encoding hyphens that appear to be accidents of line breaks (where a hyphen would not appear in the word had there not been a line break). It has been suggested to use the Unicode soft hyphen character for these cases, and Lou initially thought this would be appropriate; however, Deborah Anderson asked senior Unicode people about this and they told us that use of the soft hyphen for such cases is inappropriate. (The soft hyphen is meant for cases where processing software might choose to break a word, not where it was previously broken.)

	If we instead used the lb element, how would you indicate whether the word was broken across lines? You might use the type attribute to indicate whether a lexical unit has been broken by the hyphen, use whitespace before the element, or use the rend attrbute to describe the hyphenation. Lou suggested using the type attribute to indicate whether the hyphen marks the boundary between lexical items and the rend attribute to describe how this boundary is indicated (using a hyphen, semicolon, etc.). With this method, no hyphen is left as character data in the XML document.		If we instead used the lb element, how would you indicate whether the word was broken across lines? You might use the type attribute to indicate whether a lexical unit has been broken by the hyphen [as recommended in [http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-lb.html the element definition for the lb element]], use whitespace before the element, or use the rend attrbute to describe the hyphenation. Lou suggested using the type attribute to indicate whether the hyphen marks the boundary between lexical items and the rend attribute to describe how this boundary is indicated (using a hyphen, semicolon, etc.). With this method, no hyphen is left as character data in the XML document.

	Elena said this is exactly how the Austen project handled hyphenation.		Elena said this is exactly how the Austen project handled hyphenation.

Kshawkin: /* hyphenation */ made corrections based on Lou's email to Council on 2010-05-23

2010-06-06T16:21:56Z

hyphenation: made corrections based on Lou's email to Council on 2010-05-23

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:21, 6 June 2010
Line 245:		Line 245:
	It was also agreed that the discussion of cRef on the ticket should be "spun off" into a different ticket.		It was also agreed that the discussion of cRef on the ticket should be "spun off" into a different ticket.

	=== hyphenation ===		=== hyphenation (and orthographical changes at line breaks) ===

	Lou summarized the debate on how to ~~handle~~ encoding ~~of hyphenation~~.		Lou summarized the debate on appropriate use of the soft hyphen character, which is closely related to the question of how to encode hyphenation when also encoding line breaks.

	If you are transcribing early printed books with hyphens at the end of lines, there are a number of ways to do it. If your goal is to transcribe text, including hyphens, faithfully or to encode the text in a way that will allow you to process lexical items (generally speaking, words) without marking up these words with w elements, you will need to represent hyphenation in the source document.		As he explained, if you are transcribing early printed books with hyphens at the end of lines, there are a number of ways to do it. If your goal is to transcribe text, including hyphens, faithfully or to encode the text in a way that will allow you to process lexical items (generally speaking, words) without marking up these words with w elements, you will need to represent hyphenation in the source document.

	If your encoding will mark line breaks (using lb), this complicates the method for encoding hyphenation and requires any tokenization software to be capable to ignoring elements that can appear within words (like lb). Alternatively, a derived text with lb and other intraword elements removed could be produced for the concordance software from the master encoded text.		If your encoding will mark line breaks (using lb), this complicates the method for encoding hyphenation and requires any tokenization software to be capable of ignoring elements that can appear within words (like lb). Alternatively, a derived text with lb and other intraword elements removed could be produced for the concordance software from the master encoded text.

	In short, the Guidelines are currently not helpful in giving guidance on encoding hyphens that appear to be accidents of line breaks (where a hyphen would not appear in the word had there not been a line break). It has been suggested to use the Unicode soft hyphen character for these cases, and Lou initially thought this would be appropriate; however, Deborah Anderson asked senior Unicode people about this and they told us that use of the soft hyphen for such cases is inappropriate. (The soft hyphen is meant for cases where processing software might choose to break a word, not where it was previously broken.)		In short, the Guidelines are currently not helpful in giving guidance on encoding hyphens that appear to be accidents of line breaks (where a hyphen would not appear in the word had there not been a line break). It has been suggested to use the Unicode soft hyphen character for these cases, and Lou initially thought this would be appropriate; however, Deborah Anderson asked senior Unicode people about this and they told us that use of the soft hyphen for such cases is inappropriate. (The soft hyphen is meant for cases where processing software might choose to break a word, not where it was previously broken.)
Line 260:		Line 260:

	Lou continued that this leaves the problem of handling hyphenation of words across line breaks in languages like Dutch and German, where letters within the word are sometimes duplicated before and after the hyphen. Juliana noted that Old Irish did something similar.		Lou continued that this leaves the problem of handling hyphenation of words across line breaks in languages like Dutch and German, where letters within the word are sometimes duplicated before and after the hyphen. Juliana noted that Old Irish did something similar.

			After discussion, it was decided to use the choice element to handle such cases.

	Lou said that it's not clear where to put the lb element and said it would seem you would need to repeat it. Brett suggested a standoff choice element. Elena said that the Austen project used xml:id and corresp. Matthew said that [some project he was involved in] used sameAs with xml:id.		Lou said that it's not clear where to put the lb element and said it would seem you would need to repeat it. Brett suggested a standoff choice element. Elena said that the Austen project used xml:id and corresp. Matthew said that [some project he was involved in] used sameAs with xml:id.

Kshawkin: /* Second report (KH) */ clarified nesting of s

2010-05-28T04:02:20Z

Second report (KH): clarified nesting of <term>s

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:02, 28 May 2010
Line 367:		Line 367:
	===Second report (KH)===		===Second report (KH)===
	*2900430		*2900430
	**Decided they prefer having one or more <term> elements w/in <keywords>. Should you believe that there is a ~~nested list~~, such is already allowed.		**Decided they prefer having one or more <term> elements w/in <keywords>. Should you believe that there are nested terms in a compound subject term like "History -- Russia", such is already allowed by nesting term elements.
	**Examples in guidelines will need to be changed.		**Examples in guidelines will need to be changed.

Line 427:		Line 427:
	*If the semantics of the @ref are implied, you just call it @ref; otherwise, (e.g., scribeRef, @lemmaRef).		*If the semantics of the @ref are implied, you just call it @ref; otherwise, (e.g., scribeRef, @lemmaRef).
	*We recommend anchoring URN mechanism when possible, but unregistered URNs are allowed (and allowed by W3C as well).		*We recommend anchoring URN mechanism when possible, but unregistered URNs are allowed (and allowed by W3C as well).
	*We will change the guidelines.		*We will change the guidelines.

	===Wrap-up===		===Wrap-up===

Brett: /* afternoon of 2010-04-30 */

2010-05-21T18:21:57Z

afternoon of 2010-04-30

Show changes

Brett at 17:43, 21 May 2010

2010-05-21T17:43:10Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:43, 21 May 2010
Line 37:		Line 37:
	*2971316 - Add @svg:points to att.coordinated		*2971316 - Add @svg:points to att.coordinated
	**no objections; much rejoicing.		**no objections; much rejoicing.


	*2969870 - <surrogates> for digital & its examples		*2969870 - <surrogates> for digital & its examples
	**general agreement.		**general agreement.


	*2949985 - <idno> in more than just bibliographic elements		*2949985 - <idno> in more than just bibliographic elements
	**Following a brief discussion in which LR et al. parsed the similarity of <idno>, <num>, and <term>; in which LB opined that a phrase-level <idno> would not be a good idea; and in which the classes <idno> might be added to were discussed, it was agreed that <idno> should be added to model.nameLike.		**Following a brief discussion in which LR et al. parsed the similarity of <idno>, <num>, and <term>; in which LB opined that a phrase-level <idno> would not be a good idea; and in which the classes <idno> might be added to were discussed, it was agreed that <idno> should be added to model.nameLike.


	*2728061 - Add @target to relatedItem		*2728061 - Add @target to relatedItem
Line 51:		Line 54:
	*2946056 - order of children of profileDesc		*2946056 - order of children of profileDesc
	**After some debate such things as whether <creation> should be repeatable, Council agreed to add it to model.profileDescPart, perhaps also adding a Schematron rule to prevent its being repeated.		**After some debate such things as whether <creation> should be repeatable, Council agreed to add it to model.profileDescPart, perhaps also adding a Schematron rule to prevent its being repeated.


	*2863331 - 'Used by' section empty in model.physDescPart		*2863331 - 'Used by' section empty in model.physDescPart
Line 59:		Line 63:
	*2976608 - Add <ref> as a child of <analytic>, <monogr> and <series>		*2976608 - Add <ref> as a child of <analytic>, <monogr> and <series>
	**Numerous example use cases were put forth, and the Council agreed to the change as proposed.		**Numerous example use cases were put forth, and the Council agreed to the change as proposed.


	*2973254 - Allow @target (or <ptr>) on <divGen>		*2973254 - Allow @target (or <ptr>) on <divGen>
	**DO et al. argued that this request would amount to a hack for replicating the functionality of XInclude. JC pointed out that the TEI website uses OpenCMS, which doesn't allow Xinclude. Council members generally agreed that, while hacks could be countenanced in such situations, they shouldn't be written into the spec.		**DO et al. argued that this request would amount to a hack for replicating the functionality of XInclude. JC pointed out that the TEI website uses OpenCMS, which doesn't allow Xinclude. Council members generally agreed that, while hacks could be countenanced in such situations, they shouldn't be written into the spec.


	*2940838 - CALS for TEI		*2940838 - CALS for TEI
	**This request grows out of a discussion between LR and SR regarding Sebastian's use of CALS in ISO. LR clarified that the request isn't that we take up responsibility for CALS itself. In response to KH's question whether the proposal is that we "make CALS available" just via a reference in the prose of the guidelines, LR responded that he would like to see, at minimum, something in Roma to allow CALS. SR opined that perhaps no action by the Council was needed. After further discussion of whether we should support CALS through the TEI Sourceforge site. It was decided that this request should be added to the roster for further discussion later in the meeting.		**This request grows out of a discussion between LR and SR regarding Sebastian's use of CALS in ISO. LR clarified that the request isn't that we take up responsibility for CALS itself. In response to KH's question whether the proposal is that we "make CALS available" just via a reference in the prose of the guidelines, LR responded that he would like to see, at minimum, something in Roma to allow CALS. SR opined that perhaps no action by the Council was needed. After further discussion of whether we should support CALS through the TEI Sourceforge site. It was decided that this request should be added to the roster for further discussion later in the meeting.


	*2925145 - Generic dating class		*2925145 - Generic dating class
	**Following a summary of the request by LB, JC noted that it's not the TEI that's saying you have to use the Gregorian calendar, but ISO. DO pointed out that we've done this sort of things for <dimension> (@unit). Observing that the request obviously warrants debate, LR moved the request to the roster for later discussion.		**Following a summary of the request by LB, JC noted that it's not the TEI that's saying you have to use the Gregorian calendar, but ISO. DO pointed out that we've done this sort of things for <dimension> (@unit). Observing that the request obviously warrants debate, LR moved the request to the roster for later discussion.


	*2919640 - global @facsKey		*2919640 - global @facsKey
	**It was agreed to close this ticket, as @facs currently permits any of the 3 options Sebastian outlined in his comment. The Council favored Sebastian's choice "a" and agreed that the guidelines should be amended to include recommendations and/or examples regarding how to implement this suggestion.		**It was agreed to close this ticket, as @facs currently permits any of the 3 options Sebastian outlined in his comment. The Council favored Sebastian's choice "a" and agreed that the guidelines should be amended to include recommendations and/or examples regarding how to implement this suggestion.


	*2909766 - make <del> and <add> (etc) dateable		*2909766 - make <del> and <add> (etc) dateable
	**On the advice of SR, the Council decided to defer further discussion of this request until they had an opportunity to consider the recommendations of the working group on genetic editions.		**On the advice of SR, the Council decided to defer further discussion of this request until they had an opportunity to consider the recommendations of the working group on genetic editions.


	*2890254 - ability to define new element with same name as an existing		*2890254 - ability to define new element with same name as an existing
Line 125:		Line 135:
	*2298442 2298442 - ODD should customize ODD		*2298442 2298442 - ODD should customize ODD
	**It was decided that further discussion of this request should be deferred until after discussion of ODD+.		**It was decided that further discussion of this request should be deferred until after discussion of ODD+.


	== afternoon of 2010-04-29 ==		== afternoon of 2010-04-29 ==